Asked on 04 Jun 2019
Apparently they specialize in CFD copy trading. A friend just told me about it. Not an expert in this field so was hoping someone could help shed some light on this.
And if I should look into this further and consider investing my money with them.
The obvious red flag here is the unrealistic returns they claim to achieve and their referral incentives, both classics characteristics of a Ponzi scheme.
When trying to join, you will be directed to a shady Hong Kong registered broker called "VGX trade" with a suspiciously plain website. Upon creating an account with VGX, the only funding option available is a bank transfer to a Hong Kong bank account under the account name "Pareto International Holding". On top of that, the copy trade agreement provided by VGX lists the same address as Pareto and even signs off with the name and IC number of the "Chief Trader" of Pareto.
It's apparent that VGX and Pareto are the same guys and they do not even appear to be trying to hide the fact. This means that your funds are directly under the custody of an unlicensed company not even registered in Singapore (so much for the whole "Copy Trading" schtick). I believe this is also how they fabricate their trading results on myfxbook as they are the brokers themselves, they can feed in whatever data they want.
I wonder what their end game is with this scheme and how it will eventually unravel but I hope no one is dumb enough to actually hand them your money.
PS. If anyone at Pareto sees this, whats with the pathetic shilling attempt on this thread? Surely you can fake more believable positive reviews?
Was actually skeptical at first when my friend introduced me to their service. so i played safe and invested merely 3k and so far i have been able to withdraw my weekly profits. i will continue to monitor until i withdraw out my entire capital. but tbh, their customer service is really good. so no complains.
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Yeah I am actually investing in their service as well, very professional and had been earning my returns as promised accordingly for the past 2 months. So far no complaints from my friends, family and other clients.
Legit and transparent. Will recommend them.
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26 Sep 2019
Yeah, I invested in Pareto SG on the recommendation of a friend as well, I have seen consistent profit for the last 3 months. I like that they have a very good customer service team who have answered all my questions and they processed my profit withdrawals really quickly.
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Pareto International Limited is a very good platform to invest your money to earn extra income. I've been invested in Pareto Forex Copy Trading and the results are awesome 5 to 10% of ROI every month consistently. So I recommended to my friends and family to joined and earned passive income.
The great thing about Pareto is all of their results are verified on https://www.myfxbook.com/members/pareto/client7/3311456
I have sat in on their business opportunity, although the speaker was a little corny, what he said made sense. Got to befriend some of the people who also attended the talk and have been told that they are making decent returns. I am going to observe a bit further before deciding to commit or not.
They do not posses a MAS licence to take investment and they are recently registered company with UEN: 201903981H.
IMHO, thread lightly.
U should do a research on what happen to fortis moneta first, cos one of the boss copy whole thing and came out to set this new one up, previously all in fortis moneta all had been scammed
im a previous employee of that firm, i myself also invested 3k USD, not a single cent is back
to be honest, if the trader is good, he wont be employed as a employee in the company to trade, he could just retire and trade comfortably at home...
to do copy trading easily u can look at " FBS Copytrade" full access to u without any lock down
or u could learn how to do trading yourself first, as a newbie start from a demo account
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Was approached by a friend’s friend re Pareto as well. Was reading what @Jonni Gg had to say on this thread, so I have decided to do further background check on Pareto and VGX myself in hopes of finding out who they are and what we are really investing in - in short, it is pretty much a fruitless effort - the more i researched into it, the shadier it seems. I now have more questions than answers by the end of this little research!
First of all, I’d love to know more about VGX or Veritas Global Exchange - since Pareto claims that VGX is the only private broker that they are working with to run their copy-trade service. I started googling and guess what I found..? I found nothing - absolutely NOTHING. Their homepage literally says “Get Ready... Something Really Cool Is Coming Soon”, which frankly, is not cool at all. So then when is VGX set up? is VGX a licensed entity? How long have they been operating? Do they need any licence from MAS to provide brokerage services? Who is the management team behind VGX? Why did Pareto choose to work only with VGX from the various other platforms available? Questions unanswered.
Moving on to Pareto - the main concern really, is that they are not licensed by MAS to provide CFD copy-trading services (mind you, offering and marketing such services are also considered as “dealing with securities” under the MAS regulations). It is actually a criminal offence for Pareto to offer the copy-trade services, and if they (or the chief trader) is convicted - guess who’s going to do all that trading for you then? And what would the regulators do with our funds? Perhaps they would freeze the accounts? More questions unanswered.
And now that @Jonni Gg mentioned Pareto and VGX are the same guys... even if our accounts with VGX are held separately and that our funds can only be accessed by the two separate entities (VGX and Pareto), this makes no difference because they are technically owned by the same guys.
So... to whoever is considering investing their money in this, I would definitely steer clear given the many red flags this has already raised. To those who have invested, I’m not really sure what you can still do at this stage. Suggestions, anyone?
I am previously a investor of Fortis Moneta with the same so call Master Trader who is now leading the team at Pareto. I lost all my money with them a year ago in a situation which is happening at Pareto now.
Let me share the story with you all on what happen. All was going well with the trading at Fortis that time and we heard there is some problem at Fortis and we thought about withdrawing all our fund. And same thing like Pareto now where they conduct a meeting and even flew their biggest shareholder from Hongkong (The same Hongkong guy that is Funding Pareto now) and reassure us that what we heard are rumors only and all is well at Fortis and don't have to worry as the Copy Trading result is still doing quite well (same as Pareto now). They try to convince us not to withdraw and we believe them with their beautiful story and trusted them as we did manage to withdraw our profit all this time.
But a few of them with bigger account insist on withdrawing and thats when the shit happen. Those big accounts that try to withdraw were burn overnight even the one with $20k USD. So they went down the very next day and the so call Master Trader told them it was software error and they were using Expert Advisor bot (EA) to trade but the EA bot screw up with bug and burn those accounts but he assure them their capital is still safe just that they cant withdraw for the time being. But those of you here should have at least some knowledge of trading. Have you seen any EA bot out there that is install to a master account for CopyTrading can have bug and burn only those account that requested a full withdrawal? And this is told to those affected customers by the very experience Master Trader who is also the Head of the Pareto team now.
And when all of us heard this incident, majority of us tryed to request full withdrawal through the platform. But we waited for more than a week and we dont see any money coming back to us and we went down again. This time they told us its just some technical problem and all is well with the company and dont worry as they will transfer the fund back to us.
But when we still didn't receive the money after weeks of waiting and calling, we went down again. To our surprise the office was clear out. But we still manage to get the management out and they told us someone embezzle all the money and the copy trading that was ongoing and still in profit was all fake. And they have a few options for us to chose to get our funds back and ask us dont report police first and they raise the funds to return us back. But how the hell did a guy that is not even a registered shareholder or owner of the company manage to fully clear out half a millions of trading funds from the platform within 2 months plus without anyone from the office noticing especially the so call Master Trader.
We attended a few meetings with them after that for a few months with the hope that we will get our funds back and they have setup a new company call Pareto which they say can earn back those money that we lost at Fortis thus we believe them and didnt report police although a small portion of them did report. And this is what we did wrong by not reporting and still trusting them with their fantastic story.
In the end, We found out that a small portion of them that really went to report police and really being persistent plus keep sending them lawyer letters/letter of demand really did get small portion of the fund back by installment every month. And those of us that trusted them end up getting nothing because after all these months they notice they wont have any trouble with police and the police got nothing on them as someone has taken the scapegoat(havent been found by police yet) their attitude towards us totally change. From someone who beg us to believe them n show us tears and act like a victim. Now their attitude totally change 180%. They show us rude/hooligan attitude and ignore our calls/message.
And from their Ex-staffs/management we learn how our funds that we invested was used by the so called Master Trader and the management. Everyday after work the management eat dinner that cost more than $1000 - $3000+. They hang flower at the cost of $10k above each time. They flew business class flights and slept the best hotel and eat the best food and slept the most expensive girls at those high class ktv that each girl cost minimum $500 just to sit down. And how much went into their pockets? Half a millions gone in 2 months plus.
Now they are repeating the same way as they did at Fortis. A local company to get you all there to attend preview or lesson. Their very own trading platform control by them. An offshore company to handle your funds because Singapore cant retrieve back your fund if anything happen and they can pack and go with your money anytime. Your funds there is safe for them to reach but not for you. And all this 3 company is operated by the same group of people.
Look at the Master Trader and all their staffs and IB facebooks from Pareto. Did You see those expensive bags n meals n hotels n cars and new phones that they are posting. They really should thank you all these investors who willingly gave them all these money to let them lead such a lavish lifestyle using your money instead of yourself lol. How did they manage to spend your money when it is suppose to be deposit to the platform for trading. The answer is leverage. They use very big leaverage so they dont have to put so much funds into the trading platform.
So learning from our past experience with the so call Master Trader. My best advice to anyone who invested with Pareto. First thing is withdraw whatever you have and dont be greedy. You already earn some money during this few months with them. Dont because of greed and lose all your capital like us who trusted them and ended up with nothing. Dont follow our footsteps and trusted them in the end we end up with nothing.
This are cold blooded jerk who has been repeating all this scam for years as you can see in many of forums alot of people have been scam by this so call Master Trader and trust me, police seems useless when facing him. Next thing to do after you withdaw is to send all documents and aggreements that you sign with Pareto to the link stated by CAD in the news. Dont let them get away this time and hurt more people. And if anyone know any people that have been scam by the so call Master Trader at Fortis. Please encourage them to come forward n report their case to the nearest police station.
Wish all the investors here good luck and hope you all manage to withdraw all your funds in time before they close shop and start another new ponzi scheme again.
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29 Feb 2020
Some questions to ask yourself and to your friend or to the company. How assessible are your funds if you do invest with them? Track record of the cfd trader and/or trading algorithm? Costs involved? Who is the broker or custodian used? Any minimum amount to fund the account with?
Need to ask yourself this as well - why get into something you do not understand. There is no get rich quick pill when it comes to investment or trading. Can be a scam for all you know. Success comes with grit, hard work and lots of errors made and lessons learned. Why not learn cfd trading yourself?
Unregulated, endlessly flaunting their ridiculous ”returns” based on copy trading. Endlessly finding new clients to fund their company by recruiting naive staffs, with some young ones to bring in more clients. Their company is just run by another one of those that were previously on MAS watchlist as well. Do look out for fortis moneta Pte Ltd, why did they suddenly become inactive when they are doing well? Thread with high caution. All signs of a Ponzi scheme. It’s funny how they’re creating accounts even on seedly to post positive reviews.
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27 Feb 2020
I have been following the chief trader Ryan for years as well as being in his copy trading services. I highly doubt he will ruin his many years of forex reputation to get involved with a ponzi scam or etc. there are some doubts which is understood, but as an investor with Pareto since day one, I have never had an issue with funding or withdrawals. Everything is strictly through the banks, which makes it even more secure for customers.
if anyone has knowledge about forex trading, anything between 5 to 15% (as pitched by Pareto), is highly achievable. I wouldn't call it 'unrealistic'
As a startup, there is definitely room for improvement, however, in terms of transparency, responsiveness and customer service, the staff under Ryan has always been fast to provide feedback and/or to alleviate my concerns. they have indeed done a good job so far, in spite of all the hate and negative comments
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02 Oct 2019
The answer to everyone's questions:
This is another useful link to answer your question too
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20 Feb 2020
I came across Pareto international pretty early in their operations, met their representatives and also tried to speak to ryan ng himself.
Definitely need to do your due dilligence on this guys. They revamped their website and took down a lot of information. I'm guessing the information that were available then led to a lot of questions when people starts looking into it.
The partners' website all seemed similar and done up at the same time. Somehow most of the partners are all interlinked, people in pareto is also somehow the owners of these partner companies, basically all in the same bed tog and are owned by the same person. There is just a lot of red flags.
During their presentation, they will tell you their parent company is a US listed company, it sure sounds legit to most people when they first heard it. But they don't tell you which board they are listed on, Living 3D (LTDH) is listed on OTC market, any tom dick harry can easily list their company on there, just take a look at their PNL. This information also has been taken down.
They basically scrubbed a lot of info off and relevant websites now are either underconstruction or unavailable.
They removed their info on chairman/founder Edward Lau off the website.
Here are some info that I got before they did a spring cleaning, go connect the dots yourself: https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/first-regulated-cryptocurrency-exchange-set-to-launch-in-singapore-1018499803
Google every name and every company you will then see similar pattern of marketing, people involved, companies origin and owners, even the same percentage of returns generated.
Jonni GG, Jackson Teng, Erin comments are very valuable and should be looked into seriously.
They will tell you that pareto can't touch the funds in VGX unless its a proper trade etc, but in actual fact they do not have a proper custodian or escrow intact. I asked for the lawfirm that oversees the escrow, they said it was done in-house and cannot be shown. The chairman of Pareto graduated with a Law degree, just saying~
There may or may not be money laundering going on as they were not entirely adverse to collect cash and a number of their reps are bankers/insurance agents and they collect commission via cash in order to avoid being caught by the principle and MAS as this is an offense. This way they both can cover their tracks
The commission paid out to reps are very attractive and it's unsustainable in the long run, unless they are able to keep getting unaware people to invest in like a Ponzi scheme.
To join the scheme regardless full time or part-time, you have to open a min 2K USD account with them.
If you are a full time rep your commission would be
8% - if someone open an account between 2K to 15k USD
10% - 16k to 49K
12% - 50K
Thereafter monthly recurring income based on the pot (AUM) you bring in
2k to 100k - 0.5%
100 to 500k - 1%
500k to 1mil 1.5%
it goes as high as 2 to 2.5%
Part-time: you just get 5% of whatever your investor put in + trailing comm
I found out they only have around 3-5mil in their pot in mid of 2019, assuming someone get a investor to put in 5mil, the commission for the rep would be 600K alone, not including the monthly trailing comm of 2-2.5%.
Let's say existing pot was 5mil plus new 5mil investment, the current month they generate 10%:
10m x 10% = 1m
30% fee on the 1m: 300K
the company earns only 300k, it cant even pay the full commission, if they can't they will most likely pay their people from your capital. Therefore there is a 6 months lockdown, cause they need to get more people in to roll this game before you get out.
There are just too many ways for your investment to go bad, they need to consistently hit a certain amount of returns every month to sustain the trailing comms, they also can't make a loss, the moment they do everything will be shaken, especially if they received new huge investment the same month they made a loss or breakeven. when they breakeven, they dont charge the 30% fee and without fee they can't pay comms, monthly overhead etc they need to keep everyone on the inside happy in order for the show to go on.
I mean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os-4H3sBvX0 even this interview is fake, this guy chong ming is a sales team manager there and is one of the pioneers with pareto, he technically is a "client" because as mentioned above, all staff need to open account with them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9o-s3WWDc8 the lady sally also works there. If you've gone down to their office for their showcase you would have seen them around.
Was also mentioned to me that they were trying to apply for MAS license and might get it around sept or oct 2019 period, but i guess it's not happening or they may be a "delay"
Honestly if anyone can generate such a lucrative returns and still wanna work long hours, they would usually join a hedge fund because there is so much more money to be earned there.
They might have changed the way they run the business from what I last known, so just do your checks properly and be safe.
^^ the above is a repost.
posted this in dec
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26 Feb 2020
27 Feb 2020
Im not a big fan about all these forex/crypto investments. Jus in here to share about my views after seeing so many online posts about this company. I think news are already out everywhere stating the directors has been arrested. But they are still fighting hard online to claim that they are jus assisting investigations? So what is what? The first red flag i have seen is that, their employees often flaunt their wealth online every now and then, showing off their paychecks ,travelling around everywhere buying branded goods. So why are they doing this?? My perspective is such that they wana let people feel that by joining and doing investments with them u too can lead such a lifestyle too! Tats a very common receipe to lure those who are greedy and wana get rich instantly by throwing in their money into something they might not even know or understand. Those people who have claimed that they have invested and they did indeed make their pot of gold, well these people might just be that few that got lucky if not they probably are part of the scheme. Sometimes when i started reading those positive comments, i cant help but laugh, coz their comments normally seems very silly. In anyway there are jus too many people whom think they aqre smart or perhaps always lucky they can get away with such scheme. Recent Financial.org and Aliexchange is a very good example too. If you guys do not know what are they can simply goggle and find out. Last but not least lets not speculate and let the authorities do their job. Theres no free lunch in this world people. Theres no such thing like u put $10 and expect to get back $1000. So please be wiser or not when shit hits the fan u got nobody but urself to blame. CIAO..
Pareto SG Pte Ltd
Chan Chong Ming
Clara Lilian Tan
go on with the list of Portfolio Strategist
so the next time they go online, others can refer it here.
17 Jun 2020